Problem is, I'd have to research the specific physiological effects of certain hormones.

[magibrain]

...I find myself vaguely wanting to write A/B/O fic, except less with sex and more with navigating tricky power dynamics and slews of body dysphoria, and with a heavily tweaked version of the whole A/B/O premise.

(Basically, the idea in my brain is that Alpha, Beta and Omega are just psychophysical modes people operate in, and while people tend to have "baseline" modes that they operate in for long stretches – sometimes even their entire lives – people can switch from mode to mode in response to various physical or psychological stimuli. Like, a baseline beta might find themselves going omega or alpha after a major trauma, for example. And there would be drugs and such which could affect what mode people operated in. Plus, while the modes would have specific physiological effects – people operating in alpha mode might have overactive adrenal glands and produce more testosterone, while people operating in omega mode would experience heat and all its attendant fun – it would only affect personality in as much as, say, gayness does. In that there would be a ton of stereotypes and there would be established cultures which people might or might not do any social commerce with, and aside from that, it's not really something you could tell by looking at someone.)

(...though you could probably tell it by scent. Because that seems to be a thing?)

(Also, people would be able to resist physical urges, with varying degrees of difficulty from "I am having this strong craving right now!" to "I am experiencing this with the intensity of an addiction." And there would probably be a lot of discussion on medical and political stages about that.)

I don't know. I've read a grand total of two A/B/O fics in my life – feels like the start of something and The toppiest girl in the school, and ironically neither of them is for a fandom I'm actually in – and I feel like this may just be a continuation of my picking at the assumed conventions of tropes I don't actually write or read (see also), which always makes me feel a little weird. But I feel like, given some of the discussion in the prompt thread for feels like the start of something, it might be a weird little space to explore which other people are also interested in seeing explored. And it does seem like there's a healthy movement in A/B/O writing areas to dissect the heck out of the trope, from what I've read.

Of course, it also doesn't help that I already have way too many other projects clamoring for my attention. Including the one where Neal is stuck on a magical Greyhound for five years.




This is one of the ways you can tell I'm ace. I find tropes that are deeply rooted in kinky sex and then expend considerable time and energy carefully plucking out the sexybits so I can nest in the kinky power dynamics. <_< One of these days I'll write and post my WC OT3 fic and it will be 80,000 words of neither sex nor romance, continuing my trend of OT3 fic which is neither sex nor romance, and everyone will be able to tell me that I'm doing it wrong. AND I WILL LAUGH FROM ATOP MY ASEXY THRONE, I SHALL EAT THE CAKE THAT IS MY BIRTHRIGHT, AND KNOW THAT I AM THE OVERMIND, THE ETERNAL WILL OF THE ACE COMMU – no, wait, that got away from me, sorry.

Comments

[magibrain]

[I think I've only seen a few stories where the alpha refrained from sex because the omega (sensibly, in negative circumstances) didn't want it. So they did something else instead to be helpful.]

Yess. One of the things I want to play with is the idea that Alpha + Heat!Omega doesn't necessarily ≠ sex; there's a whole lot of ways it could play out, and even knowing the people involved, it's often difficult to predict what will happen. So while a lot of the time it does happen with an uptick in libido from one or both parties, because a lot of people are sexual people and associate intensity of emotion toward another person with sex, it's the intensity of emotion that's the real hallmark of the interaction, and it's just slipped into cultural understanding as a sexual thing in the same way that intimacy is present in cultural understanding as a sexual thing.


[I suspect that someone would shift alpha if they felt a need to fight, because that's the alpha mode. It could give them the strength needed to win. Conversely, they might shift omega if they felt a need to defend -- say, if violence was unavailable or counterproductive -- or if they felt a desire to be protected.]

•nods• And it's interesting, also, examining that in the context of a fight/flight/freeze response, where one context could have a range of different responses, not all of them actually helpful in any given circumstance. (Like, the freeze response in deer definitely does not help when the trigger is headlights on a freeway, but technology outpaces evolution, so they're kinda stuck with it. At least for howevermany generations it takes for it to assert an effect on what genes get passed down to the next generation.)


[Let me know if you write it?]

I shall! :)

[sholio]

it's the intensity of emotion that's the real hallmark of the interaction, and it's just slipped into cultural understanding as a sexual thing in the same way that intimacy is present in cultural understanding as a sexual thing.

Oooh! I really like that take on it -- and again, I love how this undermines the thing I hate most about classic a/b/o, which is the straightforward biological determinism of it; this is more like how humans actually deal with their biological urges, where there is actually a very complicated thing happening which has had all its ambiguity collapsed into a single socially acceptable interpretation.

[magibrain]

...I feel like in the thing I'm writing, Diana pretty much settles in at "protective/possessive" and parks there, and Neal pinballs all over the place and doesn't want to be anywhere he actually ends up. Poor guy. I keep considering having one of the places he ends up at be "lust", because Neal is not asexual, but... I am, so that probably won't happen, both because I'm annoyed at the prevalence of the trope and because I am under no illusions that I can write that convincingly.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> Yess. One of the things I want to play with is the idea that Alpha + Heat!Omega doesn't necessarily ≠ sex; there's a whole lot of ways it could play out, and even knowing the people involved, it's often difficult to predict what will happen. <<

That makes sense, and better story tension.

>> So while a lot of the time it does happen with an uptick in libido from one or both parties, because a lot of people are sexual people and associate intensity of emotion toward another person with sex, it's the intensity of emotion that's the real hallmark of the interaction, and it's just slipped into cultural understanding as a sexual thing in the same way that intimacy is present in cultural understanding as a sexual thing. <<

People interpret a lot of things in a sexual way that don't have to be.

>> •nods• And it's interesting, also, examining that in the context of a fight/flight/freeze response, where one context could have a range of different responses, not all of them actually helpful in any given circumstance. <<

There is also a fawn response, aimed at ingratiating.

Best for fight: alpha, beta, omega.
Best for flight: beta, omega, alpha.
Best for fawn: omega, beta, alpha.

Freeze can happen with any, and is often a malfunction. As a strategy, they may employ it differently: alpha to set up a strike, beta for observation, omega to avoid detection.

[magibrain]

[Alpha + Heat!Omega doesn't necessarily ≠ sex]

...I'm not actually sure how that ≠ happened, there. I mean, I guess it's technically true, but I feel like I was going for =.


[People interpret a lot of things in a sexual way that don't have to be.]

Oh, god, yes.


[There is also a fawn response, aimed at ingratiating.]

Huh; interesting. That does make a lot of sense, and would make the various modes work well as adaptive (or occasionally maladaptive) stress responses, though I want to avoid presenting them wholly or primariy as stress responses. (And, really, while the exact psychological mechanisms of the mode shifts are useful as background information and conceptual scaffolding, the story I'm working on is fairly abstracted from them – much more of a character study than a wider study of the phenomenon.)

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> ...I'm not actually sure how that ≠ happened, there. I mean, I guess it's technically true, but I feel like I was going for =. <<

It looks like a conflation error to me. There were two ways to phrase it:

Alpha + Heat!Omega ≠ sex
OR
Alpha + Heat!Omega doesn't necessarily = sex

Mix them, and it reads wrong; but I figured out what you meant. They may feel hornier but aren't compelled to have sex.

>>[People interpret a lot of things in a sexual way that don't have to be.]
>
>Oh, god, yes.

Which leaves lovely wide spaces with little if any literature in them, to be explored at leisure while everyone else is trampling the same path deeper over in Fux-R-Us.

>> Huh; interesting. That does make a lot of sense, and would make the various modes work well as adaptive (or occasionally maladaptive) stress responses, <<

Most strategies can be adaptive or maladaptive depending on how and when they are used.

>> though I want to avoid presenting them wholly or primariy as stress responses. <<

In biology and psychology, a process is rarely just one thing. The causes and effects tend to be complex. So for example:

* Stress can trigger a mode shift.
* But that can be negative stress (survival threat) or positive stress (intense emotional or physical stimulation).
* Some types of stress might favor one mode, while others would favor another.
* Most people have a preferred mode, and that's going to be stronger for some than others, like the slope of a mountain to climb before mode can shift.
* Now add other people, because someone may shift in response to someone else. That includes psychological, emotional, and pheromonal interaction.
* There are probably yogis doing meditation to enable conscious mode shifts.

There might be environmental factors: tide, moon phase, light, temperature, humidity, season, etc. can all have biological effects. Someone with seasonal affective disorder might find it harder to reach alpha mode; maybe the full moon brings out the omega in more people.

Slop all that together and it becomes difficult to predict or control, but there would be some known trends.

>> (And, really, while the exact psychological mechanisms of the mode shifts are useful as background information and conceptual scaffolding, the story I'm working on is fairly abstracted from them – much more of a character study than a wider study of the phenomenon.) <<

Ah now, this is the power of intelligent literature. You don't have to put it all into this one story. You just have to know it's there. The story will shape itself accordingly.